Deputy Dog

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Posts by Deputy Dog

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  774

  Freedom to Choose God

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  come to the wedding.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

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  Deputy Dog

  LT

  ... right up to the point that he sinned.

  We have no way of knowing how long that was. It could have been 5 minutes or 5 years.

  I would have to ask you; in what way was he "unrighteous", prior to the fall?

  I don't think he was " unrighteous " or "righteous". He was just innocent (in their case I guess ignorance really was bliss). In order to be "unrighteous" he would have to know what right and wrong was. Until he ate of the fruit he had no way of knowing anything about that. Let me ask you, if Adam had looked at the fruit and thought about what it would be like (lusted?), to be like God, knowing good and evil, and choose not to eat it, would God have found him guilty or punished him (in light of Mat.5:28)? D Dog
• 
  774

  Freedom to Choose God

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  come to the wedding.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

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  Deputy Dog

  LT

  Did you miss the phrase "in this context"?

  Sorry, my mistake.

  What do you make of Isa.64:8, also, while you're at it Ps.68:5; 89:26?

  Ps. 68:5 deserves a closer look. I think the other two are speaking about father meaning, origin, not so much about relationship. D Dog asked,

  Also, could we say that Adam's righteousness was "self" righteousness? This is why I question whether it is true righteousness at all.

  No comments? D Dog
• 
  774

  Freedom to Choose God

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  come to the wedding.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

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  Deputy Dog

  LT

  The implication is that Adam was the son of God, in this context, even though the explicit word "son of" or "begat" isn't used in this particular account.

  You're starting to sound "Mormon" my friend. If you think Adam was a litteral son of God, like, David son of Jesse. I agree there is a sense in which he is a son, or God is his origin, but, I wouldn't read too much into this passage. We agree that the reprobate are not sons of God, don't we? I hope you see my point, that Jesus is Joseph's son, much the same way I am one of God's sons.

  Also, could we say that Adam's righteousness was "self" righteousness? This is why I question whether it is true righteousness at all.

  D Dog
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  774

  Freedom to Choose God

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  come to the wedding.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

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  Deputy Dog

  LT

  Good stuff

  This is some real good stuff! As I study your post I'm really being blessed.

  I hope you'll forgive me for answering off the cuff.

  Of coarse. That's probably how I got myself into this discussion anyway.

  I would say that the relationship was there (theologically speaking) though they maybe didn't fully understand it.

  Can I take this to mean that we agree, it was first, revealed "clearly" by Jesus?

  I find it interesting that the genealogy in the Lukian gospel account goes back to "Adam son of God".

  Now here is some more of the good stuff. As I looked at Luke 3:38 and the genealogy, I found that in the Greek, the words "the son" are not used in the text. It simply states " αδαμ του θεου" or "Adam of God". The only time the word "son" or " υιος" is used in the Greek, is verse 23 where it says:

  "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph..."

  What is the only way Joseph could be Jesus' father? By adoption!

  Surely every day he passed the tree he made a right decision?

  My guess is, that he fell the first time he took a good look at the fruit.

  I would still stick to my guns that Adam was "perfect" (fit for purpose), "innocent" (not corrupted) "righteous" (acting rightly) and "good" (pure and holy, without taint). That is of course a quick and snappy few definitions and I apologise in advance for any inaccuracy.

  The problem here is that the passage you sited, says only that that it was good, so instead of defining righteousness, let me ask you this question. Was the righteousness that Adam had in the garden, the same kind of righteousness that we have in Christ? Which is better? D Dog
• 
  774

  Freedom to Choose God

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  come to the wedding.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

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  2. 
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• 

  Deputy Dog

  LT Glad your back! It was getting lonely on this thread.

  Surely there are none who are of the Elect who are not children of God, regardless of the time frame in which they lived?

  I agree, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, until Jesus, people did not have that type of relationship (abba father or heavenly father), this side of glory. Do you know of any Old Testament verses that teach this concept? The Pharisees condemned Jesus for teaching this didn't they.

  Regarding Adam, before the fall, is not righteousness a state of being?
  What in him was unrighteous?

  I would say that Adam was innocent. Does not righteousness come from making right decisions? Wouldn't that require him to know right from wrong.

  At the end of the sixth day wasn't everything that had been created declared "good"?

  Yea, but, does "good" have to mean "perfect", at least morally? I'm not so sure that it does. Wouldn't innocent be characterized as "good"?

  Since even their conscience was "depraved",

  What is a "depraved" conscience? Do you mean a hardened heart? Are you saying, Cain didn't know he sinned, when he killed Abel! D Dog
• 
  32

  Why I will never be a Christian.....

  by outbutnotdown in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have read a lot of books about spirituality, religion and self-awareness.

  the one major problem i have with christianity (and despite the fact that people may suggest that i am just turned off by being raised as a jw.... i think that my point would be valid without having experienced that negative start to life).. the one common premise of christianity is that we are sinners at birth and that we need salvation, otherwise we are disrespecting god.

  i have also read other books that use the premise at the exact opposite end of the spectrum...... namely that we are perfect at birth and that we, through choice, use prejudisms and negative thought patterns that end up making this "sinner" theory more believable.. i'm not suggesting that either of these theories is absolutley correct, but i choose to lean more towards the "perfect at birth" theory.

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  Deputy Dog

  For all of you that don't believe that we are sinners at birth, why do you all teach your children to do bad things?

  D Dog
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  4

  PBS.ORG. THE QUESTION OF GOD.

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  how each of us understands the meaning of life comes down to how we answer one ultimate question.. does god really exist?

  two different lives, sigmund freud and c.s.lewis are reviewed on this program that aired on sept. 15 and 22. i missed most of this program on pbs.org.i just found it online and i am going to follow through on this very interesting program.has anyone else seen it, if so, what are your thoughts on it.. blueblades

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  Deputy Dog

  Why did yours show up on freinds and mine didn't?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/78688/1.ashx

  D Dog
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  4

  PBS Question of God C. S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud

  by Deputy Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is anyone watching the pbs program; the question of god .

  it focuses on the lives of c. s. lewis and sigmund freud, part 2 airs tonight at 9:00pm in the east time zone.

  i find this program very interesting.. d dog

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  Deputy Dog

  I like the biographical look at both of the subjects.

  Yea, when you look at the two backrounds. you would think the roles would be reversed. D Dog
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  774

  Freedom to Choose God

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  come to the wedding.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  ' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Deputy Dog

  LT I think your missing my point and that is, that the relationship was not a parental one. That kind of close relationship (Abba, father) was introduced by Jesus. I'm sure God was a loving Master. But, a Master none the less, He wanted Worship and Praise I'm sure, and disobedience was punished death.

  My whole point here is that surely Adam was righteous, before he fell?

  How could he have righteousness of his own? He didn't even know was it was, until after he ate the fruit.

  The second brings me to a point regarding Adam's offspring. In what sense had they sinned?
  Since they were now totally depraved, it seems fairly clear that this would be in thought, word and deed, and the examples in Genesis attest to this

  Agreed.

  Nonetheless this sin was surely not imputed to them, or was it (since we have various errors recorded for posterity)?

  Why not?

  The text seems to indicate that the sin, that entered the world by Adam, was present with them.
  But here is my point about the timemachine: By what "law" were they dying, given that we would later find that sons were not to bear reproach for their fathers (Eze.18:20-22)?

  They sinned against the moral law, that is written on all our hearts as a result of the fall, now knowing good and evil.

  Are there any outwith these two categories, that might receive a beneficient servanthood?

  You lost me friend??? D Dog
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  4

  PBS Question of God C. S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud

  by Deputy Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is anyone watching the pbs program; the question of god .

  it focuses on the lives of c. s. lewis and sigmund freud, part 2 airs tonight at 9:00pm in the east time zone.

  i find this program very interesting.. d dog

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  Deputy Dog

  Is anyone watching the PBS program; The Question of God

  It focuses on the lives of C. S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud, Part 2 airs tonight at 9:00pm in the east time zone. I find this program very interesting.

  D Dog